For feminists, the rule of thumb is: if you wouldn’t open the door for a man, give a man your jacket, pay for a man’s meal, help a man carry something or what not, don’t do it for a feminist. Show a feminist the exact same (equal) level of courtesy and deference you would show a man.

I think some of the really unfortunate stuff that whiskey said sounds like a TV and movie stereotype of “what women are” … a few women are manipulative, a few men are pigs … most of us are just people trying to figure out how to make it through the world.

I have to pity anyone whose life-view gives them such a rigid and unpleasant view of ANY group.

Likewise, when person A invites person B to a restaurant for dinner, A should expect to pay for B (though B may certainly offer to contribute and should probably avoid ordering every single expensive item on the menu) because it was A’s invitation. A and B can be of either gender- long gone are the days when only men asked women out to dinner and only men could afford to pay for it.

But back to the subject of raising kids- the easiest way to deal with this is to tell kids (boys and girls alike) that gestures of common courtesy should be extended without making a big deal out of them and, in the rare occasions they are turned down, they should accept these rare refusals without taking offense. Being gracious and thoughtful of others are attractive traits in anyone. (And for the few mental cases that think nice = wimpy… well, your child doesn’t need to date them anyways.)

And sorry, whiskey, but I never got the memo on the appeal of men who treat women like garbage–unless the woman thinks she’s worthless. The boys I knew gave up the seduction community antics by the time they graduated from junior high school.

However, if I’m in a man’s company and we come to a door and he does not pull it open and hold it open for me, (or open a car door for me while I get in, or pay for dinner if he takes me out, or give up his seat so I can have it, or…the thousand other things a man should do when he’s with a woman) I’ll have very little to do with that man again. Date, friendship, work relationship/environment, what have you.

And it is precisely because I’m a feminist that I will expect this. It is NOT “special treatment”. Chivalry–which isn’t really chivalry here, just common sense good manners to respect a woman–does not have to die; and there is no greater delusion than to think this world is “post” feminist. Not by a longshot. What we’re talking about here isn’t about feminism so much as it is good manners, which recognize that there is an inequality in the way society privileges men over women pretty much universally. The least a man can do to curb that socially sanctioned and institutionalized misogyny on a personal level in his relationships with women is get the door so I don’t have to. Sheesh.

Moreover, women by and large are willing to SHARE the few men who meet these criteria of excitement and social domination. You may not like this, it is however the social reality.

Your task, is to prepare your sons for either a life of unhappy loneliness by feeding them pretty lies based on faulty, long-ago ideas of past female preferences, or giving them the tools to understand what potential girlfriends and wives REALLY want from them: excitement and dominance.

This means ALMOST never holding open doors, etc. that were part of the old chivalrous order. Because it puts them as fawning, supplicating Beta types that women abhor. [Doing this after dominance/excitement in a relationship is established is wise, as long as it is infrequent and surprising, not something expected.]

You may not like this, but women killed Chivalry. They killed it by finding men who exhibit this outside special occasions in a relationship to be fawning, supplicating, desire-killing Beta men who they want to turn off any exhibition of desire for themselves. If your sons have anything beyond drunken “mistakes” in terms of sexual relationships with women, it is essential they know what women want (excitement and dominance) and give them that exactly. By suggesting that women are doing themselves a favor by doing things for THEM, not the other way around. The way a dominant, exciting, in-demand by other women Alpha male does.

If you doubt me, check it out yourself. Observe what women do in relation to men while being picked up: in bars, coffee shops, the bookstore, and other social gatherings. In almost all cases, exhibitions of chivalry kill desire, while being a “jerk” creates it. Yes it is ugly. Thank the expression of female hypergamy and the lack of any need to filter for commitment and faithfulness.

Your sons are either happy and fulfilled with women, or angry and lonely. It is entirely your choice and you will shape their destiny (and lack or presence of grand kids). If you end up with no grand kids — you’ll only have yourself to blame.

[I don't like the general lack of politeness. I find it crude and debased. However, it is the natural outgrowth of ruthless sexual/mating competition. One run by, I might add, women.]

And, of the subject of men I have known, I never met a man who talked about chivalry who wasn’t trying to impress me with what a nice guy he was, and I never met a man who needed to impress upon me what a nice guy he was unless he wasn’t. My boyfriend–a genuinely nice man–never once had to tell me that he was nice; he demonstrated it in a million ways, including respecting my autonomy. Sometimes he holds doors for me. Sometimes I hold doors for him. It works.