Comments on: Code Word: Pedagogue http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/ Celebrating the Joys of Parenting and Childhood Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:11:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Once Upon a School » Teeny Manolo http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8854 Once Upon a School » Teeny Manolo Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:45:37 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8854 [...] Somehow, it just seemed topical. For some reason. [...] […] Somehow, it just seemed topical. For some reason. […]

]]> By: Monday Teeny Poll » Teeny Manolo http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8675 Monday Teeny Poll » Teeny Manolo Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:03:38 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8675 [...] there was quite a big dust up last week over my homeschooling post, I thought I would address the topic in today’s poll. There were wide-ranging opinions [...] […] there was quite a big dust up last week over my homeschooling post, I thought I would address the topic in today’s poll. There were wide-ranging opinions […]

]]> By: Glinda http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8610 Glinda Sun, 16 Mar 2008 05:54:13 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8610 Ahhh, thanks for digging that up, raincoaster. Ahhh, thanks for digging that up, raincoaster.

]]> By: raincoaster http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8583 raincoaster Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:22:51 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8583 Here we are: <i>The reason for homeschooling that was most frequently cited as being applicable was concern about the environment of other schools including safety, drugs, or negative peer pressure. Eighty-five percent of homeschooled students were being homeschooled, in part, because of their parents’ concern about the environment of other schools. The next two reasons for homeschooling most frequently cited as applicable were to provide religious or moral instruction (72 percent) and dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools (68 percent).</i> You can read the whole study over at <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/parentsreasons.asp" rel="nofollow">the National Center for Education Statistics</a>. Here we are:
The reason for homeschooling that was most frequently cited as being applicable was concern about the environment of other schools including safety, drugs, or negative peer pressure. Eighty-five percent of homeschooled students were being homeschooled, in part, because of their parents’ concern about the environment of other schools. The next two reasons for homeschooling most frequently cited as applicable were to provide religious or moral instruction (72 percent) and dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools (68 percent).
You can read the whole study over at the National Center for Education Statistics.

]]> By: Eilish http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8453 Eilish Sat, 15 Mar 2008 07:34:48 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8453 I agree HSLDA would probably be the best source for those statistics, but so many people homeschool for multiple reasons that it might be difficult to pinpoint the primary one. Glinda, please let me also clarify. I was gratified that so many on this thread were open minded about school choice and parental rights. I was really reacting to comments like "a LOT of parents who homeschool because they don’t want their kids exposed to minorities, actual science (as opposed to “Intelligent Design”), religious differences, and any other views that differ from their own." and "Just look at wackos home schooling their kids as less competition when your child is trying to get into medical school…." which I simply found very surprising and, I think, detracted from your original post which very amusingly stated the rather obvious absurdities of criminalizing a segment of parents who are obviously very invested in the best education for their children. I think the reason that a lot of CA homeschoolers found this ruling so shocking is because, generally speaking, the attitudes about homeschooling families have been improving! More people see it as a valid educational choice and my reaction was mostly surprise that so many people still have such a negative view. I do think that my last point was important, though. Like Bellamama said, whether or not you agree with the specific issue of homeschooling, protecting the parents' rights to raise their children in accordance with their beliefs and without unnecessary state interference is the real issue and is something that you touched on in your original post. I agree HSLDA would probably be the best source for those statistics, but so many people homeschool for multiple reasons that it might be difficult to pinpoint the primary one.

Glinda, please let me also clarify. I was gratified that so many on this thread were open minded about school choice and parental rights. I was really reacting to comments like

“a LOT of parents who homeschool because they don’t want their kids exposed to minorities, actual science (as opposed to “Intelligent Design”), religious differences, and any other views that differ from their own.”

and

“Just look at wackos home schooling their kids as less competition when your child is trying to get into medical school….”

which I simply found very surprising and, I think, detracted from your original post which very amusingly stated the rather obvious absurdities of criminalizing a segment of parents who are obviously very invested in the best education for their children.

I think the reason that a lot of CA homeschoolers found this ruling so shocking is because, generally speaking, the attitudes about homeschooling families have been improving! More people see it as a valid educational choice and my reaction was mostly surprise that so many people still have such a negative view.

I do think that my last point was important, though. Like Bellamama said, whether or not you agree with the specific issue of homeschooling, protecting the parents’ rights to raise their children in accordance with their beliefs and without unnecessary state interference is the real issue and is something that you touched on in your original post.

]]> By: KES http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8451 KES Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:29:36 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8451 Thanks for the clarification... I really don't know the statistics. The Home School Legal Defense Association (hslda.org) might know. Thanks for the clarification… I really don’t know the statistics. The Home School Legal Defense Association (hslda.org) might know.

]]> By: Glinda http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8449 Glinda Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:14:52 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8449 @Eilish and KES- Let me clarify my question. You seem to take offense that people are characterizing homeschoolers as people who wish to teach their children religion, even though the vast majority of the comments support their right to do so, and I myself did so in the post. I am simply wondering what amount of homeschoolers do it for expressly that reason. I'm not passing judgement, I am simply wondering what the statistics are. @Eilish and KES- Let me clarify my question. You seem to take offense that people are characterizing homeschoolers as people who wish to teach their children religion, even though the vast majority of the comments support their right to do so, and I myself did so in the post.

I am simply wondering what amount of homeschoolers do it for expressly that reason. I’m not passing judgement, I am simply wondering what the statistics are.

]]> By: KES http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8448 KES Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:56:31 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8448 Yes, I would also like to ask why we're asking why or how many homeschooling families do so for religious reasons? Part of being a parent is to pass on your values to your children, but there are two ways that the parent can mess this up: 1, by passing on purely dogmatic values with no critical thinking skills or reason; or, 2, by refusing to pass on any values in the name of allowing their children to believe what they want, also neglecting critical thinking skills. I really don't think there's anything wrong with parents homeschooling their children to teach them their religion.. it's what mine did. Yes, I would also like to ask why we’re asking why or how many homeschooling families do so for religious reasons? Part of being a parent is to pass on your values to your children, but there are two ways that the parent can mess this up: 1, by passing on purely dogmatic values with no critical thinking skills or reason; or, 2, by refusing to pass on any values in the name of allowing their children to believe what they want, also neglecting critical thinking skills. I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with parents homeschooling their children to teach them their religion.. it’s what mine did.

]]> By: Eilish http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8446 Eilish Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:45:24 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8446 Hmm, sorry it took so long to join this thread. There are lots of interesting comments here and I guess I have to say I am really surprised by a lot of the misconceptions and misunderstandings about homeschooling. I am also gratified that so many people believe in a parents right to choose the right school environment for their children. I was pretty shocked by some of the comments, though. As a CA parent who intends to homeschool her son, I have to say that I guess I thought a lot of the perceptions about homeschooling families being racist, bigoted, socially stunted luddites were a thing of the past! I think Glinda's post was right on a lot of points. Yes, there should be accountability, and there is in most areas, whether that is imposed by the school district, individual school or the homeschool associations. I would like to see a school district that can match homeschooling's statistics. 92% of homeschooled children test at or above their grade level and the drop out rate is statistically insignificant. Despite what the court said, performance should absolutely be a factor in the debate! Yes, many people homeschool their children to teach them a specific, religious philosophy as well as basic education. To answer Glinda's question, that probably represents a pretty big percentage in my experience. It certainly would describe me. My question is: Isn't that what most religious schools teach as well? Are we actually going to put limits on what religious views parents teach their children? If you think that the educational establishment doesn't have an ideological agenda, especially in California, you have never taught in a public school (which I have). Your children are going to be taught ideology; it is your responsibility as parent to decide which ones your children are exposed to. I won't bore you with the specifics of my own plans for homeschooling or the many variety of homeschooling families I have met and their many stories. The issue is bigger than any one family or one story. This is a fundamental issue of parents' rights to raise and educate their children to the best of their ability and the creeping arm of government intrusion into the home. It is complex, and yet, it is not. I hope I have contributed to the thread. Thanks for the patience with this very long post. Hmm, sorry it took so long to join this thread. There are lots of interesting comments here and I guess I have to say I am really surprised by a lot of the misconceptions and misunderstandings about homeschooling. I am also gratified that so many people believe in a parents right to choose the right school environment for their children.

I was pretty shocked by some of the comments, though. As a CA parent who intends to homeschool her son, I have to say that I guess I thought a lot of the perceptions about homeschooling families being racist, bigoted, socially stunted luddites were a thing of the past!

I think Glinda’s post was right on a lot of points. Yes, there should be accountability, and there is in most areas, whether that is imposed by the school district, individual school or the homeschool associations. I would like to see a school district that can match homeschooling’s statistics. 92% of homeschooled children test at or above their grade level and the drop out rate is statistically insignificant. Despite what the court said, performance should absolutely be a factor in the debate!

Yes, many people homeschool their children to teach them a specific, religious philosophy as well as basic education. To answer Glinda’s question, that probably represents a pretty big percentage in my experience. It certainly would describe me. My question is: Isn’t that what most religious schools teach as well? Are we actually going to put limits on what religious views parents teach their children? If you think that the educational establishment doesn’t have an ideological agenda, especially in California, you have never taught in a public school (which I have). Your children are going to be taught ideology; it is your responsibility as parent to decide which ones your children are exposed to.

I won’t bore you with the specifics of my own plans for homeschooling or the many variety of homeschooling families I have met and their many stories. The issue is bigger than any one family or one story. This is a fundamental issue of parents’ rights to raise and educate their children to the best of their ability and the creeping arm of government intrusion into the home. It is complex, and yet, it is not. I hope I have contributed to the thread. Thanks for the patience with this very long post.

]]> By: Glinda http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8441 Glinda Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:33:31 +0000 http://teenymanolo.com/2008/03/12/circle-the-wagons/#comment-8441 @pjs- I agree that the words used were perhaps not the most positive, but the statements did not characterize ALL homeschooling parents as such. In fact, most of these comments are in favor of the right to homeschool, regardless of the reason. @KES- I know that as Ana stated above, homeschooled children tend to score higher on standardized tests and perform well in higher education, which is great. However, I don't think anyone characterized them as losers, or anything even close to that. All kinds of people homeschool for all kinds of reasons. That all being said, it cannot be ignored by anyone that there are indeed people who homeschool their children in order to teach them a specific, often religious, doctrine. What percentage of homeschoolers do they represent? I would be interested to find out. @pjs- I agree that the words used were perhaps not the most positive, but the statements did not characterize ALL homeschooling parents as such. In fact, most of these comments are in favor of the right to homeschool, regardless of the reason.

@KES- I know that as Ana stated above, homeschooled children tend to score higher on standardized tests and perform well in higher education, which is great. However, I don’t think anyone characterized them as losers, or anything even close to that. All kinds of people homeschool for all kinds of reasons.

That all being said, it cannot be ignored by anyone that there are indeed people who homeschool their children in order to teach them a specific, often religious, doctrine. What percentage of homeschoolers do they represent? I would be interested to find out.

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